Monday, November 16, 2009

Do women realize they probably can't train (strength, self-defense) to be able to defeat most men?

This is not meant as a gender equality question. This is a question based on the concern I have for false confidence. I saw a question asked about why feminists have trouble admitting that men are stronger, and 3/4 of the answers indicated what I consider to be a dangerous lack of understanding of muscle biology, physics, and how things actually work in self-defense scenarios. The 160 pound male couch potato will almost always be practically stronger than even a 130 pound female that works out a lot, even if she can bench or leg press more weight. He%26#039;ll also probably be able to physically dominate her if he wanted to. I have no intention of lording this fact over feminists, I simply want to inform the uninformed of this reality.

Predators do go after easier targets (unless you%26#039;re a male in a drinking establishment) , so I urge women to build their muscles and skills, but to be realistic. Oh, BTW, Bruce Lee often said that running is one of the best self-defense %26quot;techniques%26quot; around.|||This is a good question to educate women.

I%26#039;ve read, seen and heard a lot about what goes on in self-defense classes, and most of it is just pure BS designed to boost women%26#039;s self-confidence.

As a poster above said, she thinks she can break a knee cap just like that. Knee cap takes a LOT of strength to break, more so than your average woman has. I know because I%26#039;ve fallen on my knees many times and got kicked there a few times and they were NEVER injured badly. Most some blood.

Self-defense = self-help for the attacker.

EDIT: Just wanted to add: martial arts don%26#039;t do much. I%26#039;ve done karate and judo, which is similar to Akido and it really doesn%26#039;t help much. In a fight, there are 5 things you need: toughness, speed, strength, good reflexes, and a good stance %26amp; guard.

I%26#039;ve never been poked in the eyes, kicked in the nuts, or get broken knee caps in a fight, and I%26#039;ve been in around 30 dirty fights; all moves allowed.|||I am freakishly strong for a woman, but I also know it means nothing without training. Best just to not get in a fist-fight with a man :)

I know there are women who would do just fine, but we have to face the fact that the average woman could not defeat the average man, all other things being equal.

When I was in high school, back in the 80%26#039;s lol, the girls were all required to take a self defense class in P.E. We had a great time practicing eye-gouges, and shin stomps, and knee kicks, and flipping each other all over the room. We left the class very confident.

I walked into my next class, and some of my guy friends were in there. I told them I could flip any of them over my shoulder. So one of them came up behind me and hooked his arm around my neck. I tried to drop to my knee and flip him - it wasn%26#039;t happening. LOL they were laughing so hard, and I just kept trying!

Then they tied me to a chair and left me there. :D

Lesson learned.|||Sure :)

I weigh 130lbs and realise that even though I%26#039;m not a light-weight, many men would be able to physically over-power me.

Have to be realistic as a woman, although it won%26#039;t stop me from fighting back or even fighting dirty if I was ever in a situation that called for it.|||I hate to disagree, Portwine, but Akido is an excellent example of a martial art that uses your opponents strength against them. There are others as well that do not require strength as much as a sharp mind and keen senses.

Women, clearly, will never be as strong as men, but sometimes, strength is not the only defence required...|||I%26#039;ll hone my switch blade skills.|||Hell almost any man could beat me in combat, most women too. That%26#039;s why I have a gun.|||Melimar, you are right - strength is not a virtue - but Portwine wasn%26#039;t claiming otherwise.|||YES its not possible|||The point of self-defense is not to defeat an attacker, it%26#039;s point is to attempt to buy a few seconds from the shock (and hopefully pain) of being fought against to succesfully flee. Most self-defence tactics I%26#039;ve been taught either from professionals or common sense being handed down is based upon the assumption that you are in a losing battle. But then I was taught the reason for scratching the hell out of an attacker was so if you do fail to save yourself at least you will manage to supply some evidence when they find your body.

My response in the question you bring up is brought by the fact that some men appear to believe that muscle mass is all that counts and the poster was making it appear that it was impossible for women to reach the strength of men. No women can%26#039;t reach the strength of a man that works out regularly, but many women can equal and exceed the average joe. Also, being able to beat a 160 pound couch potato at push-ups or arm wrestling does not mean you will have the ability to do something when attacked.

I know if I were attacked I have the raw deal, at 5%26#039; 116 lb I can%26#039;t really push someone away who is determined to do something to me. But I also know that if I don%26#039;t fight fair and am not afraid to throw anything and scratch anywhere I can still make someone break a sweat.

Grown women at times are complete idiots when it comes to defense. Having taken parts in games in elementary school that went beyond games I witnessed many girls whose idea of self defense was to go from out of the way non visible areas to screaming and running across the play area within five feet of the men. With that mentality it doesn%26#039;t matter how strong you manage to be, you will be taken down.

EDIT: To I %26lt;3 Q, it takes 15 pounds of pressure to damage a knee. Do you really think women are unable to exert 15 pounds of force?|||Yes, but for those women who are truly concerned about self-defense, those classes don%26#039;t teach you how to %26quot;face-off%26quot; and whoop some dudes butt. They teach you techniques to get away, vulnerable strike points to hit that may buy you some time so you can do as Bruce Lee suggests.

For those of us that like martial arts, (like myself) I don%26#039;t do it to try to be able kick anyone%26#039;s @$$. I do it because it%26#039;s fun, I enjoy the challenge, and the discipline.|||Your logic is off base. I am a 5%26#039;3%26quot; female and weigh very little. However, I have trained in different combat techniques and can hurt many men stronger than me. A physical fight is not all about strength. It is also about intelligence and speed. If I know where to strike I can incapacitate any individual. A broken knee cap will stop an assailant.

A man may be stronger than me because of biology, but I can overcome that fact with proper training. Look at boxers, the bigger man does not always win. Speed also plays a role.

It is important to note biological differences, but those differences do not mean women cannot take down a man. Especially when most attackers will not expect a counter-attack.

You may also say I have no proof. My proof is some guy attacked me on a street and ended up being arrested with a broken knee cap.

As one person pointed out below it does take strength to break a knee cap, but not as much as he thinks. Falling down on your knees is not the same as a kick in the correct spot.|||Don%26#039;t the Marines take women these days?

Knight%26#039;s is our local shooting range. Would you believe that all the folks behind the counter are college girls with 9mm automatics strapped to them? All except Sarah. She likes the Desert Eagle.

It seems like your question is pointed at the futility of a woman pursuing fitness, rather than combat training, which is not only foolish (like saying people should not get an education, unless they get paid for it) but is completely not connected. One%26#039;s ability to injure, disable, or kill another person has very little to do with physical strength. Your larynx, for example, becomes disabled in the neighborhood of seven psi. If your legs come out from beneath you (unless you are adept at falling) hitting one%26#039;s head on the pavement goes a long way. Having trained combat reflexes trumps all, as the 135 pound Bruce Lee will attest to, were he not dead by chemical misadventure.

In the case of woman vs attacker, unless he attacks first, and by surprise, gives her great opportunity.

I%26#039;m hard pressed to find a way to respond, your question goes left, then right, then left. What are you trying to say? That women should train but be realistic? Shouldn%26#039;t everyone train, but be realistic?

For example, an instructor in my area from Amir Ardebilly%26#039;s school (he sponsors our local Battle of the Bay) got into a road rage chase on the Howard Frankland. After the bridge, they both parked, and proceeded to shout at each other until the martial arts teacher gets out of his car. The other guy%26#039;s gun goes boom, and said instructor now has a commemorative mural of his face on the school he once taught at.

A few years ago, they had their first women%26#039;s 3rd degree black belt test, and even Amir was floored at the ladies%26#039; performances. However, one must take into consideration that he is Middle-Eastern, so there you go.

Anyone well trained in combat can unman a casual attacker, usually by aggressively resisting, disabling, and leaving the area.

I would also like to add that most martial arts are sport. Without hand and bone conditioning, its still just a sport, and I have had women pound gravel and kick structural supports right along with me.

In this day of firearms... isn%26#039;t it a moot point anyway?|||If the neither the male nor female are trained then the advantage goes to the male. If the female is trained and the man is not then it equals out better. If both are trained then advantage swings back to the male. However their are exceptions. I would suggest that everyone take some sort of training because if nothing else it does help to keep a person calm and thinking rationally in high stress situations. And in the event of an assault a clear head is the most important part of self defense.|||I don%26#039;t mean to be a Beeeeytoch, but could someone explain to me why it matters whether you guys are stronger or not?

You win - is that what you want to hear/read? You can lift a house - GREAT!

We can%26#039;t kick your *** (although I bet you%26#039;d be shocked at those who could).


EDIT - I%26#039;m sorry - I didn%26#039;t read the part about predators, and you are definitely right on with that.

Sorry - get so used to the derogatory stuff it%26#039;s like I have blinders on sometimes - my bad!!

Gotcha Swift - thanks|||yes, i am familiar with Bruce Lee%26#039;s methods. in fact i trained in a martial arts school that was heavily influenced by his teachings. you do know he was a little guy, right? (5%26#039;7%26quot; 135 lbs) and he could kick some big guys%26#039; butts!

all people have weak spots, regardless of how big or strong. there ARE ways to defeat nearly anyone, if you know these spots due to training. it doesn%26#039;t even matter how strong the defender is, if they are accurate %26amp; can strike one of the right spots they can successfully down a stronger %26amp; larger attacker.

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