Monday, May 17, 2010

High kicks to the head for self defense?

Is my TKD school odd (or rare) because it doesn%26#039;t teach you to kick for the face/head during seld defense? I read a ton of responses about %26quot;high flashy kicks that are useless%26quot;. If we are working on self defense drills and you kick high, you WILL get knocked over. All an instructor does is step forward or sometimes a nice hard jab and your probably going to end up on your a$s. If not, you are at least off balance enough that you have to go completely defensive for a second. Granted I could kick anyone six and a half feet tall in the face if they let me, but I haven%26#039;t found any one yet. We are taught instead to try and take out a knee at least hammer the thigh. Just curious. Thanks for any responses!|||My first style was taekwondo. And if you%26#039;re familiar with Tae Kwon Do then you know that spelling (taekwondo) is ATA.

I%26#039;ve hated on tkd on these forums, but in all truth I received great instruction through the ATA.

My instructor, Master J.D. Olford, also taught that head kicks weren%26#039;t for self-defense. Low kicks and elbows were his preferred self-defense weapons.

Of course, my school did emphasize head kicks and we trained much more on those than we did self-defense. It was ATA, after all, which is geared toward closed-tournament sport sparring.|||We teach to all of our students that the mid section is the cut off line for self defense kicks. The higher you kick, the greater the chance for having your leg grabbed. Then, you are in trouble.

Unless the attacker is a slobbering idiot. Then you can probably do the River Dance on their head and they wouldn%26#039;t notice. LOL

We also teach grappling and ground defense at our place. This way our students are ready pretty much no matter what the situation is.|||Your instructor is giving you good tools and a good approach to self defense. High kicks take longer to get there and an experienced street fighter or fighter will not sit still after you throw the first one to give you a chance for another one if the first one does not end it. I know many kickers that can do some awesome kicks and, if given the element of surprise, can hit you with devastating force. Even they miss occasionally and in some situations they don%26#039;t have the element of surprise or it is too crowded to kick or the fighting is to close in or sometimes ends up on the ground where awesome, powerful high kicks have no value or use.|||I%26#039;m happy to hear that a TKD school is teaching that high kicks are not the best or most effective method and only open you up for problems.

The only time I personally will kick to the head is after a low to mid %26quot;fake%26quot; then quickly snap up to the head.|||High kicks are complete crap. With two equally trained and equally physically capable people any high kick will be quickly blocked and the offender issued a serious blow for even trying such a stupid move. The only time they ever work is when the other opponent is incredibly slow, incredibly dumb, or dazed but in those cases you may as well prod them in the eyes and just end the fight straight out.|||Your TKD school is odd and rare, because it is actually teaching you quality.

High kicks are something that has to be set up, and frankly in a real fight you will not have the opportunity to chain techniques or set them up. The truth is one you hurt someone with strikes they are going to close the distance and try to tie up with you. That is just human nature, they want to wrap up the apendage that is causing them damage, it%26#039;s primal instinct.

No one is going to stand up and trade with you, especially if you are getting the best of them. So for the most part, high kicks are not practical in self defense, not unless you have a high degree of mastery with it. I have seen some world class Tae Kwon Do guys that probably could land the high kick in a real fight, but they are few and far between.

For the most part as another user said anything above the waist isn%26#039;t really viable in a real fight. The truth is you will generally have enough time to land maybe one or two kicks before someone is in on you, then it will be close range fighting, and possibly grappling.

Depending on your skill.

One of the primary things you should be working on in your grappling is defending a takedown, and doing takedowns on your own.

The truth is most fights end up in some sort of grappling situation period. And you are far better of having someone close to you in the case of a knife or gun, then you are with them having distance. (Then you can actually control the weapon hand, at distance you do not have this luxury).

Sounds like you get a really good TKD school, and your instructor is dead on. Flashy kicks for the most part are useless until you get REALLY good. Even then it is a risk, and is usually something that you have to set up.

So unless your name is Baukaw Por Pramuk, or Mirko Filipovic, high kicks probably aren%26#039;t your best weapon.

Congrats on having a good instructor and good school.|||There%26#039;s nothing wrong with it, your instructor is just being practical about teaching you self defense techniques. High kicks only work in a tournament competition where kicks to the head are awarded higher points, in a real fight the only time it will ever work is if your opponent is untrained and an absolute clutz which is not the usual case. Personally, the only time I%26#039;d kick someone in the head is if he%26#039;s lying down flat on the ground.|||My first martial arts teacher (he taught TKD) was the first guy to say that head kicks are only for the competitions and practice.

In the street, you go for low kicks to the knee/shin/leg. Nothing above the waist. When you pop his knee and he is on the ground, you can kick him in the head.|||This should be the norm for TKD schools but they seem to lead America in the styles that have the most McDojo.

High kicks have their place but usually that is not in a life and death struggle in the street.

It is is good to practice high kicks because if you can kick to the head then you can kick harder to the leg and ribs.|||I just LOVE the idiots that throw those movie style high face kicks. It makes it easier for me to end things. Grab, smash the knee and walk away.

I%26#039;ve always stayed away from ANY school that kicks high or smells of feet.|||A kick to the head takes too long. The leg or abdomen is much closer. The head is a much smaller target and is more mobile.

Cro-Cop is great with KOing opponents with head kicks, but he sets them up before he throws.

A head kick is great in sport because you are looking for a strike, not a KO. Plus it is 2 points instead of 1.|||i believe you should use whatever works with the least amount of energy with minimal risks to you. a head kick CAN work but chopping down someone1 legs can be just as effective with less effort. dont get me wrong kicks are powerful and in a controlled setting such as kickboxing mma etc they can be great to knockout your opponent but in matches theres time to set up a kick, but in real life selfdefense you want to quickly incapacitate your attacker so you can leave.

in other words like mentioned they are teaching you the modern self defense tkd and not the sport/olympic style tkd|||Not odd- just common sense. And probably rare; it seems that even when TKD instructors know that sports fighting and self-defense are not the same, they still fail to point that out to their students.

The knee/thigh is a far better target for kicking. If you can injure an attacker%26#039;s leg, you will be able to get away far more easily, since he can%26#039;t pursue you as easily.

Those high flashy kicks are not %26quot;useless%26quot; --they are perfect for tournaments and competition. However, they won%26#039;t work well in a self-defense situation. It is up to the instructor to point out the difference to his students.

By the way, it is important to learn how to handle yourself on the ground, BUT know that the ground is the absolutely last place you want to go. And ESPECIALLY not with a weapon (despite what judomofo said). True, you can control his weapon hand... but only if you%26#039;re stronger than him. You are also in much closer proximity and much more likely to get hurt. For instance, if the opponent has a gun, all he has to do is get that gun in your general direction, pull the trigger, and you%26#039;re screwed. It is far easier to actually hit someone at point-blank range than someone that is running away.

If he has a knife, you want to be well OUT of the range of that knife. A good blade will split the top layer of your skin if you just *brush* your finger against it. Put that blade in the hands of someone who is actively trying to kill you, get into a wrestling match with him, and you%26#039;re in deep trouble.

If you end up on the ground... that means you screwed up somewhere. If you must hit someone, make it count-- make sure he ends up on the ground and stays there long enough for you to get away.

Yes, fights do end up on the ground often, but ideally, you really don%26#039;t want to go there. And most ideally, you don%26#039;t want to end up in a situation where you have to fight AT ALL.

Back to the topic at hand:

Fortunately, I train at a sports-oriented school and the students know it is a sports-oriented school. My instructor has never tried to give us any false guarantees about self-defense.|||Actually it seems like your school is a modernized version of the art. They know if you kick high, you%26#039;re doomed so they avoid it. Yeah it%26#039;s good for competitions, but a traditional art would protect someone better than competition. It is rare to a see a school do that, but it%26#039;s very smart.|||the ABSOLUTE most valuable thing that you can take from wrestling (folk and free) is to sprawl.

even if you chose not to take the fight to the ground, you can avoid it if you have a good sprawl.

IMO- (from what I%26#039;ve seen from friends training in groundwork), folkstyle teaches you sharper takedowns and sprawling better.

Granted, the downside most wrestlers face when %26quot;transfering%26quot; thier skills is that they/we have a tendancy to focus more on avoiding going on your back or pinning your opponent and going all out and not conserving energy.

It is a hard hump to get over. IMO- depending on how long you rassled for, it might not be possible to get rid of that much learned behavior completely from early in your life.

EDIT: I didn%26#039;t even answer the question.

Generally while high kicks are definately more damaging but they are higher risk, and very difficult for the average person (who is not cro cop) to get to work in a fight. for most people it is simply not going to be able to get to work in a fight that would take place in a realistic self-defence situation and is not as effective for most people as a low kick and hands combos.

without commenting on your school or training methods, generally a more %26quot;self-defence%26quot; oreinted class that is teaching self-defence and fighting over sportative techniques will focus (should focus) more on low risk high percentage moves that can be used and picked up more easily by everyone.|||the kind of kick you use depends on the kind of style or strategy your opponent uses . For example , would you hit a capoeirista with a roundhouse kick ? that would be rare ....... oh , and the downside to high kicks in mixed martial arts tournaments is that unlike your TKD rules , they CAN and WILL hit you on the leg or grab it , causing imbalance , or worse , defeat|||Your instructor is right on, that is good to hear in a TKD school. If you stick with the plan he has laid out those low kicks will slow down and open up a finishing high kick if set up right.

But even in self defense a good grappler will eat a low kick to take you down. I know you may spend some time grappling but a good high school wrestler could really give you trouble.

In a self defense situation I would wait on any kicks until you have an idea of what you are up against. Jab Jab Jab|||idk|||lets put it this way...the moves we see on the telly are all nicely choreographed...timed and so all

in a real fight...theres hardly any time to do anything a fight...the worse place to end up is on the your legs...its almost impossible to defend from that position

high kicks to head are effective...YES but that opens you up to attacks to your grounded leg...with the center of your gravity off balance its lots easier to fall down flat...if its a fight...on your backs the last place u wanna be

its a good strategy to not go for the head...only go for the head if its 1-1 or you are really that damn good...max damage...

i have 2 black belts in taekwon-do and in aikido...i have been a few fights on the outside...and the best way was to never go for the head...hard hit to the knee works lots better :P i dont condone fighting outside...hahaha|||Sounds like you have a good style. Striking, especially knee kicks, are excellent for self-defense. (You don%26#039;t want to get tied up on the broken-glass covered cement with an attacker who has a knife or a gun) As long as your school seperates it%26#039;s more modern-flashy tournament practice from it%26#039;s self-defense, you have more than the TKD schools I%26#039;ve visited have. Feel good, you%26#039;re in elite company, at a quality Taekwondo school! :)

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